Track day insurance

[chrisr]

I know that recently this subject has been discussed ad nauseum, but I recently became aware of a new development which will affect anyone who takes their car to the track. In the latest isssue of Sports Car Market, a Portland attorney who has been actively involved in the car hobby for many years discusses how a client of his who recently totalled an E46 M3 at a PIR driving school was denied coverage. In the past your insurance company would cover you so long as the track event, be it a school or lapping day was not timed. Going forward that will most likely not be the case. New language was inserted in his policy which allowed his insurance company to avoid any liability. The new clause states that they will not be liable "for any incident which takes place on a racing surface". The bottom line is, if it takes place at the track it won't be covered. I would suggest that everyone carefully read their policies before going to the track. Even if your policy does not yet have this clause I would bet it will be coming soon. Caveat emptor.

Chris

[Versingetrix]

Talked several times with my State Farm agent in 06, and as long as it is not a timed event with no contests of speed, it was all good. 2007 may bring change, but here is hoping not.

Cheers!
Scott

[Walt Conley]

What Chris is saying is good advice. I would recommend everyone get a written copy of their insurance contract with their next renewal and read it carefully. If the policy changes, saying that your agent said all was good over the phone won't be worth much.

[Craig]

Talked several times with my State Farm agent in 06, and as long as it is not a timed event with no contests of speed, it was all good. 2007 may bring change, but here is hoping not.

They just changed it to include all events on a "racing surface." Might want to give your agent a call- I have SF and my agent confirmed I am no longer covered.

[D///Mill]

Talked several times with my State Farm agent in 06, and as long as it is not a timed event with no contests of speed, it was all good. 2007 may bring change, but here is hoping not.

Scott - You need to read this.

[m3jlk]

Will the club and its' members be held liable in the event there is an accident involving uninsured drivers at a HPDE? I believe we dodged a bullet at a recent track day event when two cars tangled. To the best of my knowledge nothing came of it, although some people were concerned with the potential consequences at the time.

[mikeg]

Will the club and its' members be held liable in the event there is an accident involving uninsured drivers at a HPDE? I believe we dodged a bullet at a recent track day event when two cars tangled. To the best of my knowledge nothing came of it, although some people were concerned with the potential consequences at the time.

That's what the waiver is for.

[Rich Milham]

The majority of drivers are most likely uninsured for HPDE, whether they know it or not. The Club, instructors, volunteers and the Board are protected from litigation/judgement by waiver(s) and insurance. Participants are protected from litigation/judgement by waiver(s) and their own insurance if applicable. What the Board has done is take every effort to anticipate risk in Club driving activities, and reduce that risk to an acceptable/safe level. People that have driven with other Clubs or in other areas will tell you that this Club is very sensitive about risk/safety. I doubt that our track programs will suffer attendance problems because of these issues. If anything, our approach to risk/safety may garner more participants as people without track insurance weigh their options.

[Rickshaw Racing]

I just received my policy renewal for 2007 from Safeco - almost verbatum the same language as SF: no coverage if vehicle is driven on a surface intended for racing. Doesn't matter what you're doing on the surface, just if the car was driven on that surface...Which begs the question of our corner workers (ICSCC and BMWCCA) who drive their cars on the racing surface getting to the corner stations. Not that anything should happen, but it could, and do they know that their insurance is most likely null and void at that point?

Regarding personal liability - auto doesn't cover it at the track, but my umbrella policy does. I don't sell insurance nor am I associated with insurance, but I believe these days everyone ought to carry an umbrella policy. It's relatively cheap for what you get.

That's in addition to the waiver everyone is supposed to sign prior to using the track, spectating, or volunteering...

[todor]

well, then you might as well start timing these things... I think it would be useful for student drivers to know how well they did, and how different driving techniques affect their overall lap times. Maybe not in group D, but the others... (I personally am a beginner but it seems to me that that would be useful).

[m3jlk]

The majority of drivers are most likely uninsured for HPDE, whether they know it or not. The Club, instructors, volunteers and the Board are protected from litigation/judgement by waiver(s) and insurance. Participants are protected from litigation/judgement by waiver(s) and their own insurance if applicable. What the Board has done is take every effort to anticipate risk in Club driving activities, and reduce that risk to an acceptable/safe level. People that have driven with other Clubs or in other areas will tell you that this Club is very sensitive about risk/safety. I doubt that our track programs will suffer attendance problems because of these issues. If anything, our approach to risk/safety may garner more participants as people without track insurance weigh their options.

Rich, I know you and others have put a great deal of thought and effort into crafting a waiver form for use at club driving events. But with todays litigious society and a surplus of lawyers looking to make a buck, I frankly don't trust the waiver as offering me bullet proof protection against an expensive frivolous law suit. Just my non legal opinion.

Larry Kangley

[Rich Milham]

Larry:

I feel very good about our legal protection, and this is coming from a person who has made a living for the last 25 years making/litigating personal injury claims on behalf of injured people. I have also served as a part time judge in Pierce County Distrtict Court for 18 years. Anyone can sue anyone, however there are strong protections in place in both State and Federal law that protect against frivolous litigation and abuse of process. Any lawyer bringing a claim/lawsuit that is subsequently deemed frivolous or unfounded can be held personally accountable with sanctions ranging from civil, financial sanctions, to criminal penalties, and loss of liscence to practice law. In my humble opinion, there really aren't many frivolous lawsuits being filed, because the risks are too great, and there is no financial reward in bringing a bogus case. There are good and bad lawyers, like there are good and bad people. You only hear about the bad ones, because it sells. The vast majority of attorneys work hard to protect our fundamental freedoms, and the rights of all. The vast majority of litigation in the Courts is business and criminal, not personal. There are many resources online where you can research these issues should you desire. I love this Club, and will do anything within my authority to protect it and its' Members from the perils of litigation. I just wish someone would get the power restored to my house before Christmas!

[wdlfbio]

Hi all. We're new club members and just bought our 1st Bimmer, which we did an ED on and are anxiously awaiting it to get to Tacoma It made Port on Sunday

I hope we'll make a meeting or banquet prior to the March Car Control Clinic, but we absolutely are planning on the basic course. After touring Germany - Italy, I'm sure it will be a big help. But enough thread highjacking.

on the insurance side of things, I read on the other thread that Safeco does not extend protection to its customers for this course. I called my Safeguard rep and he basically told me the same thing. But when I asked him if he could provide me with the section that discusses this issue, he simply said to read my policy. Oh, that didn't sit well at all. I'm pretty easy going, but one thing I relish is good customer service. The last thing I want to waste my time on is reading through pages of crap a layman doesn't understand anyway. He's paid to provide insurance assistance. So, I'm done with Safeco as soon as I can find another carrier.

My question is how do you explain the basic car control clinic without making it sound like a huge liability to know if I will be covered or not. This is a new 328xi and the last thing I want is to cough up $40K plus if something bad happens. Even if we have to pay for an additional rider, fine. But, it WILL NOT be through Safeco!!!! And I shall gladly write them informing them of who I dealt with and it is becasue of his lack of service that we are cancelling our 4 policies!

Happy Holidays

[Wayne5117]

Rich, you might like to take a look at this insurance company. It looks like they're in England as they quote prices in pounds. They insure from 1 day to whatever for track events any place in the world. One day coverage was 18 pounds whatever the hell that is. Probably less than $50? Might be something to look into though for people really worried about augering in
Wayne of the 330 group

[mikeg]

One day coverage was 18 pounds whatever the hell that is. Probably less than $50?

$35

With insurance, you always have two issues. What does it cost, and will they actually pay out?

This is particularly a concern when you are buying insurance from another country.